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What happens when a PR firm has to earn its fee the same way it earns your coverage? We sit down with Dick Grove, a veteran of more than 50 years in media relations, to unpack pay-for-performance PR and why “getting paid for results” can be both brutally honest and surprisingly effective, especially for startups and smaller companies that cannot afford months of billable experimentation.
Dick Grove shares with Peter Woolfolk how results-based public relations changes behavior: fewer scattershot pitches, more listening to what editors and producers actually need, and more pressure to find the real news hook fast. Dick explains why he built teams by hiring people straight out of the media, and how remote work made that possible. You will hear the practical side too: commission structures, lowered overhead, and the management habits that keep a distributed PR team feeling like a team, including in-person launch meetings, weekly check-ins, and shared lead networks.
Then we tackle the hard part clients often avoid: “value” after the placement. A hit in Forbes or the Wall Street Journal is a platform, not a guarantee your phone lights up. We dig into expectation-setting, choosing the right outlets, earned media versus buying an ad, and why the myth of “great media relationships” collapses if the story does not resonate. If you care about PR measurement, media pitching strategy, and building credible content with a long tail, this conversation is for you.
Subscribe for more conversations like this, share the episode with someone who buys PR, and leave a review with your take: should pay-for-performance be the default or the exception?
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